The Ice Garden's PWHL Expansion Roundtable

It's official! The PWHL is adding a seventh and eighth team and they'll be in Vancouver and Seattle! While many questions were answered with these announcements, even more questions were created. Luckily for The Ice Garden's subscribers, we have quite a few writers willing to offer their expertise and try to answer the questions created by this event.

Some answers were prepared before the PWHL announced their expansion to Seattle.

We’re going to see women’s pro hockey find a permanent home on the Pacific coast of North America for the first time in ~100 years. What does this mean for the league and sport as a whole in your view?

Eleni: I don’t think it can be overstated. There are so many excellent hockey players living and playing in the Pacific Northwest at all ages and of all genders, and there hasn’t been enough infrastructure to recognize and hone that talent. Putting a team in Vancouver guarantees that the women’s hockey community there will never be overlooked again and ensures that players and coaches and fans there will stop having to be on the outside of a professional sport that they have been watching and participating in by having to travel or move to other places. I also love giving a team to the city that has done the best at supporting the league rather than the most obvious logistical or historical answer—it encourages any other potential markets to really invest in hitting the bar that Vancouver set.

Maya: Selfishly, I’m pumped because I don’t have to fly 4+ hours to watch professional hockey anymore. But as a whole, I think that it shows just how massive this league is. The fact that they are expanding on Season 3 and heading to a city where they had over 19,000 fans turn out for a single game, it really shows the faith they have in their fans and the longevity of this idea. Two things from the press conference stood out to me. The first was that hockey in British Columbia is almost at 50/50 registration for boys and girls. That’s huge. And so many more girls can discover hockey through the PWHL and get into the sport. That makes me so happy. Secondly, this is the first team that will be the primary tenant in their venue. Not only is that big for the sport, but it creates so many awesome opportunities for community outreach at that arena. I’m not from Vancouver but I know a lot of people have childhood experiences of being at the PNE, and now having women’s hockey at the PNE? Another awesome level. 

D.N.: What strikes me the most is the level of confidence the league is showing by placing this team in Vancouver. Like my colleagues have brilliantly highlighted, this is a big step for the league—it’ll be a big investment and it brings up new logistical challenges that a different league might not have been willing to justify. I love that the team went with an ambitious approach for their first expansion. They could’ve just as well chosen another east coast city, but starting to establish a foothold in the west in their third season is a really daring and smart idea. To me, it signals that the league’s found a way to keep the finances and logistics viable even as they start to ambitiously expand, and that’s a great sign for the long-term sustainability of the league. 

Sally: We’ve seen tremendous growth worldwide in higher level women’s hockey and the takeovers certainly played a massive role in that. I’m really excited to see the potential trickle down effect on youth, high school and collegiate hockey out West. I played in the ACHA for college hockey and people like Zoë Harris, the first women inductee in the ACHA Hall of Fame who also helped initiate the ACHA women’s division, and Lindsey Ellis, founder of the ASU Women’s Club Hockey team have both been leading charges to grow hockey in their respective states. It would be great if the visibility of a PWHL team out west encouraged other leagues and schools to put more funding into their women’s teams. Maybe one day we’ll see a day that more female players can stay and develop longer at home.

Lydia: Just like so many of my colleagues have said, moving out to the West Coast in season three is a massive step that highlights the league’s confidence in its long-term sustainability and it opens even more doors for fans to get into the sport, not to mention the fact that more players will now get to continue their careers. Everyone else has made so many great points, but one that I want to add that sound simple but will make a big impact is West Coast fans will finally have games that they can watch on TV that start at normal times. Like Geremy said, it’s a sign to these fans that, unlike in many past leagues, they’re not an afterthought. The league is willingly incurring a massive increase in their travel budget to reach them, and that is a huge statement so early in the league’s life when there are plenty of other cities that also really want a team and would’ve been a lot easier.

Emma: I think everyone has kind of already said what I was thinking, but I really want to highlight part of what Sally in particular said. Not only is this a huge step for the PWHL in terms of growing new markets in new areas, I think the growth of hockey as a whole on the western side of North America is integral to the sport as a whole, and I’m hopeful that with new professional franchises growing into these spaces we’ll see that trickle down in other ways. There’s a lot of great hockey in the junior leagues and in the NHL on the men’s side of things, and I’m hopeful we start seeing more of that on the women’s side of the ice as well—from potential junior opportunities to even some new NCAA DI programs as well. The takeover tour on the West Coast did particularly well, and I’m excited that those fans are getting the chance for more opportunities to support the league and to enjoy hockey in their home towns as well!

Geremy: I’m not great at answering these type of questions but I’ll give it a shot! The league showing this much confidence in its ability to handle the financial burden of making such a large jump out west to two permanent homes and the confidence in that fans on the west coast are ready for two teams so soon is a great thing! It’s hard not to see the buy-in from fans in the area as Seattle/Vancouver have done really well as Takeover Tour sites. Typically what we’ve seen in the past have been pro women’s hockey leagues being, naturally, focused in the east. It makes sense in terms of cutting travel costs down to have teams in those typical cities like Boston, Toronto, Montreal, etc. This move ensures that west coast fans are not an afterthought. There’s a lot of rabid hockey fans out there ready to support some west coast teams.

You’ve been made GM of either Seattle or Vancouver. What is your team building philosophy short term and long term? 

Mike: I think what separates good general managers from the pack is the ability to recognize market trends and learn lessons. With that in mind, my priority would be to build the blue line with superb puck-moving defenders that can skate. The initial PWHL Draft, trades, and free agency have all demonstrated just how important blueliners who can move the puck are. Those are the players I would target in the expansion draft and in the league entry draft.

Geremy: I’m going to steal Mike’s idea and say you gotta build your blueline. If I can figure out that the talent on bluelines in the PWHL/pro hockey is a bit on the thin side pre-expansion teams, every GM will know this as well. The priority should be grabbing whatever blueline talent you can either through the expansion draft, the entry draft, and free agency. The standard of defensive play is high in this league and if you’re not around league average suddenly the puck is in your net a lot no matter who your goalie is. I’d also add in that I’d be working closely with the coach to figure out what type of players they’re looking for. Unless expansion rules greatly benefit the expansion teams in giving them elite talent off the bat, they’re going to have to rely on rolling out four lines of good players and get depth scoring. As for goaltending, there’s enough good goaltending in the world of women’s hockey that you can throw a dart and hit one. I know as the goalie guy I should be yelling “GOALIE! GOALIE! GOALIE!” but it’s going to be really hard screwing up finding a good goalie. 

Melissa: For me, goaltending is key. Watching the PWHL this season, it’s easy to see how much having a strong goaltender can impact a team and how important that is for success. There’s also a smaller pool of players to choose from in that position. Look at the impact having Aerin Frankel has had on the Boston Fleet, or how important Ann-Renée Desbiens is in Montreal. Aside from that, I think a lot of team-building comes down to culture. As a GM, you’ve got to decide what kind of culture you want to build, and pick not just players, but also coaches & staff, that are willing to buy into that (while simultaneously helping shape that very culture.) Build a culture where everyone trusts one another to show up & work their best, where everyone is encouraged to thrive, to share their unique talents and skills.

Eleni: I would focus on culture. Decide what you want your identity to be and target players who are not only talented, but fit the ethos you’re building around. Make yourself a destination by building a team who knows who they are and you will be able to get the best out of whatever players you end up icing because they will know their roles and their priorities on and off the ice. 

Sally: “GAG” rule: Get a Goalie. Find that anchor the defenders can trust to have their back and vice versa. From there, that trust seeps into the offensive line to allow them the mental freedom to play to win rather than play to not lose. I would hire a coach that holds themselves to high standards of behavior and performance that the team can replicate and buy-in to. Maintaining those standards is non-negotiable from day one which is a key to building team culture that is overlooked season after season. Even with Minnesota in the middle, they will have some brutal road-trips even, but I would make it a culture thing that we never use that as an excuse. 

Lydia: I’m piggybacking on ideas from my colleagues and saying that getting a goalie and setting a culture are the biggest priorities. Starting with the culture, like Melissa said, you have to have one where players and staff alike are bought in and all pulling in the same direction. That means things like having a GM and coach that are on the same page in terms of playing style, getting players that will stay unified in the face of adversity, and most importantly, creating a place that people want to come to. Moving on to the goalie, I don’t care how talented your skaters are, you are not getting far in the PWHL without a high-end goalie. But what I think is going to be most important for Vancouver in the first season or two is making sure they get a goalie that is good under siege. While the PWHL will do its best to give expansion teams a chance to compete for the playoffs from day one, realistically speaking, they aren’t going to have as much established, high-end talent. However, if they have a strong culture and a goalie who can handle some adventurous play in front of them, they’ll be able to compete just fine.

Emma: I’m gonna go sentimental to add another layer to the growth: find a name that has connections to the area in order to build upon that as a foundation for the team as a whole. Perhaps that means bringing in a hometown player or someone who has had success in other moments in the market or someone who just really loves the city. Passion and connection is something that I think makes all fan bases stand out, and we’ve already seen that both in the PWHL and also in these markets. Expanding on that is something I think could be really interesting, and can also help entice other players to join in in the organization. 

What is the key or keys to these expansion teams finding success in terms of solidifying themselves in their cities the way Ottawa has even if there is losing involved?

Melissa: Marketing, marketing, marketing—and not just on social media. Billboards, outreach, community events. Anything you can do to get the players involved and visible is key, whether that’s informal skates with youth teams, a "meet the team" night at a local sports bar, the team walking in a pride parade, etc. I do think getting the NHL team in the city involved is important, too. While I don’t want to say that you need their "blessing" or "help," you can’t deny the reach they have—and to fans who are already passionate about the sport.

D.N.: The PWHL did an excellent job picking two cities that have shown how much they love women’s hockey and how much they’ll support a team. But like Melissa said, that doesn’t mean the teams can sit back and relax—they have to earn that support and build up that fan base by bringing the players and community together. It’ll come down to how they can show that the team is here to stay and ready to contribute to the community. Melissa’s point that NHL teams provide, at a minimum, unmatched connections to the area is so true—the teams would absolutely benefit from tapping into those established networks. I’d also love to see them target the local colleges and try to bring young adults into the sport. Much of the PWHL’s marketing feels aimed at younger fans or families, but I found my love for women’s hockey in college, and anecdotally, many of my friends loved to use their limited time and money to go to sports games. I’d love to see the teams reach out to colleges to build those connections, work with established university teams and clubs, and target college students more directly to introduce them to the sport. If teams can convince the college audience to be reliable attendees, they’ll benefit from an underrated source of income and community support just as they’re trying to find a foothold in their cities.

Sally: Echoing the other answers, marketing and embedding into networks is crucial for the success of not only an expansion team but the league as a whole. For every humorous “behind-the-scenes” video with a player, there is a story about their career and journey to where they are now. Some of the best performing athlete-centric podcasts detail the adversity and challenges the athletes faced, how they persevered and the person they grew to become. The real stories on the ones people see themselves in and want to cheer for every night their team is on the ice.

Lydia: Like everyone else said, marketing will be vital to the expansion teams’ succes. Specifically, as D.N. discussed, I think the league as a whole needs to do a better job of marketing to young adults. Speaking as someone just about to graduate college, a lot of people my age don’t know much, if anything, about the PWHL, and if they do, they don’t feel like the league cares as much about bringing them in as fans. They’ve usually been hockey fans for a long time, and many talk about how they frequently bring their non-hockey friends to games. Word of mouth is a great thing, but it’s not something the league should be fully reliant on for such a massive untapped market. I think they’d find the young adult market is rather easy to get off their couches and into the arena since the tickets are affordable, especially compared to most other professional sports. You just have to make an effort to reach them, which isn’t hard to do in the age of social media. So, I’d like to see these expansion franchises broaden their horizons and market to young adults, and even older childless adults and parents of grown children, instead of primarily families with young kids, although obviously they are still vital to the league’s success.

Emma: This might seem silly but invest in making the atmosphere unique to the market. I’d love to see all of the teams in the near future potentially get mascots or something similar in order to truly build the brand of the team. I think what Fleet fans have done this year with their chants and fan projects is also really interesting—the fans care about the teams and want to support them. I think if the organizations themselves really lean into that and use those connections to build up their external communications, it could pay off in dividends. I’m also a video girly—if you make really cool video content, I’ll back you 100%. 

Geremy: Being the primary tenant and the only team to be a primary tenant is going to give Vancouver a fan experience advantage over its six other PWHL counterparts. They’re going to have full control over the aesthetics and the fan experience. They’ll only be constrained by a budget, not by being in a box that requires them to account for another tenant. Whoever is working in Vancouver on creating the fan experience should be excited for potentially the opportunity of a lifetime. Make it the loudest, most obnoxious building in the league to play in. Let the opposing team know as soon as they walk in where they are. Make sure the fans feel proud of this being their home when they walk into the building. 

There will be more expansion but obviously the timeline for that is completely unknown. When the PWHL expands again where do you think they will go or where do you think they should go or both! I’m just a question and can’t make you do anything. 

Michelle: The Midwest (USA). I’m a little surprised they went full west instead of the stepping stone of the midwest. Detroit had big attendance numbers in both of their Takeover Tour stops (2024 & 2025) so I think that’s next.

Melissa: I agree with Michelle—I think Detroit will come sooner rather than later. But I also think Pittsburgh is a great market, and the Penguins have already said they want a pro women’s hockey team there. Selfishly, I’d love to see a team back in Buffalo, but I think that’s a harder market to crack right now.

Eleni: Some combination of Detroit, Denver, Edmonton, Pittsburgh, and Quebec City. Honorable mentions to Chicago and DC who could be dark horses in that race. 

Lydia: I agree with Michelle and Melissa, I’d be very surprised if Detroit is not in the next round of expansion. They’re the only city the league has visited twice and they drew well both times. I understand why they went out west first, but Detroit needs to be next. As for the other team, I’m thinking Québec City will be in the same round as Detroit. It’s a rabid hockey market, they drew well at the Takeover Tour, and they’d have the benefit of not having to compete with a men’s professional team for attention (although they’d have to share the Vidéotron Centre with the QMJHL’s Québec Remparts, assuming that’s where they go). I think Denver will also be high on their priority list, but I’m guessing they’ll want to do another team in that general area/time zone at the same time, so I bet they’ll have to wait until round three because I just don’t see them skipping Detroit again.

Emma: I love all the answers above, but I’d also be interested to see how a team does in the southern markets in the United States. I don’t recall the exact numbers for the takeover series in Carolina, but I’d be interested in if they do the takeover again to see how somewhere like Dallas or Nashville responds and potentially go from there. 

Geremy: If they can figure out where exactly to put a Detroit team, if it’s Little Caesars Arena that’s great, then they should be the next expansion team. The two takeover games there have been a huge success. They’ve set the record for most attended pro women’s hockey games twice now. They feel like the obvious target. If not Detroit then Denver. They also had great attendance for their game that was also during a Denver Broncos game. If you’re unfamiliar with Denver, they LOVE their Broncos. So for people to still come out to that Takeover Game in force? That’s very promising. I’ll also throw a Canadian market in there too in Quebec City. They’re desperate and hungry for a pro hockey team. If you want a rabid fanbase that’ll fill up the rink, it feels quite clear that Quebec City will be that place. Plus it’s natural rivalry with Montreal, we may finally see some hate in this league. 

Who is a player you think is going to benefit the most from expansion teams coming in because they’ll get more ice time in a larger role? 

Maya: GOALIES. We are so lucky to have amazing goaltending both in the PWHL, the NCAA and Europe. But when a team can only carry three goaltenders, and likely are only playing two (in some cases, even only playing one), it leads to a lot fewer goaltenders getting to play. Adding more teams means there’s a chance for more goaltenders to play. And who doesn’t want to see more goalies?

D.N.: If there’s one lesson from the 2025 World Championship, it’s that there’s swathes of untapped talent all around the world. I agree with Maya—we’ll get to welcome quite a few new goalies next year—but I think expansion teams should look internationally for talent at every position on the ice. I’m hoping selfishly that the PWHL will be able to welcome forwards like Mei Miura from Japan, who’s part of this group of young, dynamic players that have grown offensively in recent years and could play key roles in teams looking to bolster their offense. I also am hopeful that as expansion teams pull established players from other teams, we’ll get to see players, like Chloe Aurard, who had strong pre-PWHL careers but haven’t gotten much time to show off their skills in the league finally get to take on a larger role in the coming years.

Lydia: Without a doubt, goalies. There are simply too many crazy good goalies that don’t have regular roles in the PWHL, and that’ll continue for a bit even with expansion. But every new team is going to help. The Fleet’s Klára Peslarová is the first goaltender that comes to mind for me. Even if she doesn’t end up on an expansion team, it’d be a surprise if she doesn’t at least get to take one of the open backup roles the expansion draft will create. I imagine expansion will also make more European players, and especially goaltenders, think about coming over to the PWHL. Switzerland/SDHL goalie Andrea Brändli comes to mind from that realm. But also like D.N. said, established skaters who are low on their current team’s depth charts will also hopefully get more of a chance to show what they can do at the pro level. In short, it’s the current depth players who will reap the most benefits from expansion because in a league as talented as the PWHL, there’s a great chance they’re capable of more than they’re currently being used for.

Emma: Goalies is probably the best answer, but I’d also be interested to see what this does to players who have been moved off of their special teams units at the PWHL level after really excelling in college or in other leagues overseas. I think of stalwart PK’ers or top-notch PP specialists who may not have as many chances now to keep playing in those roles who might get more of a chance in the future with more units in the league. I don't know, it's just something that intrigues me, especially considering how some of the units in the last two years have either struggled heavily or have been rock solid.

Geremy: There’s two obvious answers to this question. The first being what everyone else is saying, goalies. Goalies should absolutely love this and be doing rituals for Seattle to be announced as well. There’s a big goalie glut in the PWHL that needs to be alleviated. The other obvious answer is nearly any Toronto forward in the bottom six. No one has hoarded more top six forwards than Toronto and I’m sure someone like a Julia Gosling or Izzy Daniel wouldn’t mind more playing time. My actual answer though is going to be Loren Gabel. If anyone should be getting a top six look, it’s Gabel. She has one of the best shots in the world and her goal rate numbers are always consistent. Elite overall talent might not be available, but players with elite talent in certain categories will be. If Vancouver (or Seattle or another) can take advantage of that skill it can be game changing.

Answers have been lightly edited for clarity.